Brock Bastian is author of The Other Side of Happiness: Embracing a More Fearless Approach to Living and a professor at University of Melbourne’s School of Psychological Sciences. His research and writing focus on pain, happiness, morality, and wellbeing. In his search for a new perspective on what makes for the good life, Bastian has studied why promoting happiness may have paradoxical effects; why we need negative and painful experiences in life to build meaning, purpose, resilience, and ultimately greater fulfilment in life; and why behavioural ethics is necessary for understanding how we reason about personal and social issues and resolve conflicts of interest.

BROCK BASTIAN

In today's world, feeling happy is no longer simply a state of mind. It's become a marker of mental health and success. On the flip side, pain and sadness are viewed as signals of failure and sickness. If we're not happy, then there is something wrong with us, and we need to fix it. It is no wonder that the painkiller and antidepressant markets, already worth billions of dollars, continue their rapid expansion. We've come to treat even commonplace experiences of pain and sadness as pathological, as things that need to be medicated and eradicated.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

There there's an old tale that there once was a man whose life was full of so much happiness that no stories could be told about it. And really, who wants a life like that? If no story can be told about you, it really means, in a sense, that you haven't lived.

BASTIAN

I think one of the things that we find in our research is, even when people recall their own lifetimes, what are memorable moments for them? They don't recall just the pleasant ones. They also recall the painful ones because both of those have contributed to the narrative of making them who they are. So we do need this disruption, sometimes this variation, something to push against or to bounce off in order to experience, I think, meaning, happiness, fulfillment in life.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

What would you like young people to know, preserve, and remember?

BASTIAN

I think it's led to a focus on success and standing out, and I do think that the more young people can walk away with an understanding that perhaps the best thing they can do in life is actually contribute to the lives of others, that's probably where they're going to get most of their happiness from and most of their fulfillment from. And the rest is probably a little bit hollow. You know, money doesn't really buy happiness. I mean, it certainly buys comfort, and we do know some money is very important for that. But you do need to feel connected to other people, and you can't whilst consuming and even promoting ourselves on social media. Or playing the popularity game or aiming to be famous. That seems to be a value that a lot of young people have these days, but I don't think that it's going to breed happiness. And so being able to really identify what the values are that are going to make us happy, that are going to connect us to meaning and purpose in other people and that will actually contribute to a better world for all of us, I think would be great. And I think there's competition and space for young people's minds at the moment. So if we can get them on board with some of those values and approaches to life, I think the future generations would probably be better off.

This interview was conducted by Mia Funk and Parker Blumentritt with the participation of collaborating universities and students. Associate Interviews Producer on this episode was Parker Blumentritt.

Mia Funk is an artist, interviewer and founder of The Creative Process & One Planet Podcast (Conversations about Climate Change & Environmental Solutions).